Why You Can’t Ignore Your Numbers

40,000 that I'm fine in the grand scheme of things. Does it make a dent? >> It's It's a Rolex. Oh, okay. My dream >> Yeah. >> is that they're going to stop coming to me after finance because I get a lot of uh >> It's very reactive though, right? >> One of the things that we get scrutinized on is finances, financial modeling, projections, validation of numbers. These are the things that investors look at. >> Exactly. involving the finance team from the beginning. Yeah.

It removes internal team friction because because otherwise >> love it >> you're gonna get annoyed at that CFO that tells you no we don't have budget at the very end >> and you already have spent so much time and effort and you're like this guy always never supports me. >> Finance and compliance traditionally has been seen as a cost center. >> Not being on top of your numbers is the number one killer of businesses. You just don't see it coming. >> Finance doesn't become a responsibility of a finance department in isolation. It becomes the responsibility of the whole company. >> If you would ask me, "How does your finance team look like?" I would say, "Is the CEO, COO, and me." >> Exactly.

Your accountant asks for things because it's important. >> Not for fun. >> We're more than a cost center. >> Or we're like an accountant in an iron man suit, which is we do it fast and precise. The eye is like a beast, like a lion in a cage. You shouldn't let it out. You need to control. Okay. The way we do it at tribe is we fully embrace the power of AI and the potential of AI. >> You don't just tell Chad JPT or whatever, hey, do my financial statements. Here's a bunch of data. >> Yeah, >> you know what you're going to get and how they do >> want to look into that. >> You might not because we'll get to Central Bank.

If you're here, this is a note for you guys to expedite um open banking project. >> No more downloading bank statements. Yes, exactly. >> Okay, cool. Welcome at uh BlockbyBlock, the number one prop tech podcast in the UAE and we're going global. Today we have Vlad. >> Hello. >> Hi Vlad. Nice to have you. >> We are part of the same what is it? Dubai Founders. >> Dubai Founders HQ. Yeah. Our mouthful right there. >> Exactly. >> We have never met actually. This is the first time we met in person. >> Exactly. Right. Exactly. >> You look so good. >> So do you. >> Thank you. You know, I went to the barber for you. >> Oh, I appreciate. >> Yeah, look, look the shades.

Anyways, Vlad, >> I earned my t-shirt for you. >> Yeah, >> you even came with Merc. >> Yes. >> I mean, that's something we should be doing right now, >> guys. We need to double down on the mercs. >> Yeah, Vlad. Want to know who Vlad is? >> Uh, yes. Me personally first, right? And >> Yeah. Who's Vlad? >> So, I'm the co-founder of Screwji. Okay. >> So, I'm a technological entrepreneur. Uh we I basically my history is that I've been doing finance. Uh I studied finance. I did a little bit of PWC work in big four. >> So wait a minute. Finance big four PWC. >> Yes. >> There we go. My friend. >> Yes. There's some overlap. >> Some overlap. >> So I did that for a year. Then I did investment banking.

>> Investment banking. >> Project financing for a year. Had to fly all over the place. Look at some gold mines, factories, and determined whether they need to get 60 mil or not. >> Okay. Okay. It was not my vibe. So I switched to startups. >> Okay. >> And then I was working for the last 15 years in all kinds of startups from travel tech to digital accounting all over the world. Lived in Canada, lived in Russia, >> Bangkok, Singapore and now here. >> Oh wow. >> So you have been all over the place, all over the globe, right? And you have done different types of you've been active in different types of companies, industries. So what has always driven you in in this journey?

I like seeing results. >> I like working with smart and driven people. And I like working on problems that already exist or working >> in in industries where I don't need to come up with an idea of why I'm building something. For example, in travel tech, we were a hotel booking platform. We were just better. >> So, you don't need to explain to people why they need to book a hotel room when they go travel. >> Uh you just have to do it really well. >> Yeah. and then they'll choose you. And for since 2018, I was doing digital accounting. >> Okay?

>> And likewise, you do not need to usually you don't need to explain to businesses why accounting and tax is important, >> but you have to do it really well and we're able to do it. So clients will come to us. There's natural demand and natural product market fit there. >> So what I'm hearing is that your superpower, at least when you set up a company, you work with very smart people, is doing something better. >> Yes. >> Than what is already being done. Exactly. >> So where does this excellence come from?

>> I think it comes from maybe it does come a little bit from the finance background because when I was working before and investment banking you really get it drilled into you that >> you need to not make mistakes >> to improve all the time and people are very critical >> and my co-founders are ex- finance guys as well on the investment side. So they have the same mindset. >> Okay. >> So that's where that comes from.

uh we are naturally drawn to being better >> plus we combine that with the startup experience that we've had where we know that you need to move fast and how to move fast and how to iterate and not wait for 5 years to release some sort of a product that's going to be perfect but not needed by anybody. >> Okay. Okay, that sounds good. Um Vlad, so tell us now more about Scrooge. How did you land at Scrooge? When did you set up? when did you arrive in the UAE? If you can just walk us through that journey. >> Yeah, so Scrooge is about um a bit over a year old. >> Okay. >> Uh I have been doing digital accounting since 2018, but I did it in Singapore, Hong Kong, and the UK. >> Okay.

>> Uh I was chief marketing officer at that company. >> So finance background, but you were chief marketing officer. Yes. >> How does that work? So little segue from finance from from investment banking. I went into the CEO's off CEO's office at a big travel tech startup in Moscow which was backed by serious investors had general catalyst money Axel Peter Teal etc.

strong founders, okay, >> a strong team and I started doing analytical projects there >> and transitioned into marketing because I was supporting the marketing team and it turned out that I could also do the marketing part as well as as well as the analytical part >> and that's how I got into it and was doing marketing ever since >> marketing partnerships and in Scrooge I started doing sales as well something I haven't been doing before. >> Okay. Cuz you are co-founder obviously but you're responsible for growth right? >> Yes.

So we have a co-founder responsible for product, a co-founder responsible for operations, have me responsible for growth, and we have the tech team as well who are founders. >> Okay, cool. So let's spend a bit more about Scrooge. What are you offering? What is the problem you're solving in the market? >> Yes. Uh Scrooge is an AI powered accounting and tax service for UEE businesses. >> Okay. >> We are not a SAS and we're not a traditional accounting firm. >> Okay. >> Because a SAS is like a car. M you either got to drive the car yourself or you need to hire a driver, which would be an accountant. We're like Uber or or we're like uh an accountant in environment suit.

>> Okay, >> you have an AI platform that automates a lot of the repetitive junior work like collecting your supporting docs, >> checking them for compliance, storing them, doing data entry takes a lot of time >> and we do it fast and precisely. And then we have the senior accountants on top who manage the system instead of 10 juniors work with the client do statements >> do tax advisory work and then you get this full cycle solution. >> Okay, sounds good. So by the way we use Scrooge, right? Yes, >> we are we are partners in that respect and I'm very happy by the way with how the service is going. Glad to hear that.

Um so what I am interested in is um there are quite a lot of um especially in the UAE when we talk about tech and especially if you look at the D33 agenda which one of the pillars is digital innovation economy >> so AI blockchain fintech web 3 buzz so I'm just wondering how much of this is actually true for Scrooge >> you mean how real the government initiives are >> no how real the technology AI technology the use of technologies at Scrooge >> very much real. Okay.

Uh we built this company with the idea of automating the core accounting process first using AI >> because in my previous companies and in a lot of global cases you might have heard about about with famous digital accounting firms. The issue was they introduced a lot of bells and whistles and features but the accounting itself required hundreds of people to manage the process. Okay.

because you cannot and if um document recognition and transaction categorization there's so many corner cases >> so you need the system that is able to >> uh learn on the go and is able to provide the confidence score >> okay >> right not just a result a blackbox result like an OCR people use but would tell you >> you know this this is what it is and I am 85% confident for example right so the AI infrastructure that we have right now allows support for for this kind of processes. Okay. >> So we built Scrooge from >> from this core functionality.

So uh we focused on making sure that we can do document collection, compliance, checking and categorization and the core work as fast as possible and as precise as possible and that's the core to success for us. >> So let's unpack that one more time or go a level deeper. So there's a lot we can do with AI these days, right?

probably chat GPT some use clone whatever you want to use and there's quite a lot of um knowledge you can command or you can script out of an AI >> um so for example I've seen um YouTube movies about financial experts that show that you can drill up a financial model with um AI engine ABC and then within 5 minutes you get a financial model um so then obviously when you start diving deeper there quite a number of errors you know um understanding the story so >> so I'm not always that convinced when companies say they are AI native or AIdriven right or AI based so >> that's why I want to make sure that we capture how come Scrooge is doing this the right way >> yes >> uh because AI is like a beast like a lion in a cage you know you shouldn't let it out you need to control you you need you need risk control.

>> Uh and you don't just tell Chad JPT or whatever, hey, do my financial statements. Here's a bunch of data. >> Yeah. >> You know what you're going to get. It's not going to be very good. You need to split >> specific processes still and make sure you apply AI systems to those specific processes. You train them and you also make sure experts are there. >> Experts >> to to do quality control. Yeah, >> I know that right now a few business owners I have come across they say I can just claw it myself and then it's going to do the work. >> But the issue is that you're not going to know if there's an issue that you're not going to know if there's a problem.

So our product team has gotten so deep into it that they could go and pass the ACCA now. They're almost accountants which is which is which is unique because usually >> in my past experience the product guys were more about the product itself and did not really understand the >> core accounting processes deeply enough. >> So for sure they know it deeper than me uh and and like on the level of accountants >> and then you understand what you're building then you understand where the current technology can be applied and where you need a human to step in and we have this combination. Um, that's why I'm saying that we're not just a SAS where you plug it in and it's magic. There's no magic.

There's no magic for sure yet. >> Uh, but there's it saves a lot of time for the business owner. >> It is more precise than some junior bookkeeper at scale. >> Okay. >> And it allows us to hire just more senior people that are experts that will know how to deal with the platform itself and how to improve it and teach it. You need to teach it just like you teach a new team member. Correct. Correct. I love that. Okay. >> Thank you for sharing those principles. Um >> let's expand a bit on the type of clients you're serving. Yeah. In this region. So, uh what are we talking about? Um industries, markets, big large clients, fintech, startup, growth, established.

Can you give us like >> an overview of the type of clients you're working with? >> It's it's it's very diverse to be honest and I think it's reflective of the markets the market in general here in UE. So naturally a lot of consulting style companies. >> Okay. >> Uh those would be marketing consultants, strategic consultants, recruitment agencies, you name it. >> Okay. >> Uh so asset light businesses where you have a founder and maybe a couple people. >> Yeah. >> Uh they make money. They are B2B and uh they don't want to deal with accounting at all, right? They don't know anything about it.

They wish they didn't have to do it, but okay, if I have to do it, I want to make sure that it's done seamlessly. Yeah. But I also want to make sure that I don't screw up anymore. >> Yeah. Because fines are big. >> That's that's a big chunk. >> Okay. >> Then we have startups. Uh we have startups who are serious about >> their own financial setup. Uh they expect to grow. They want to start now and and make sure issues don't come later down the line when funding comes or when when they actually have scaled. >> Those will be like compliance first. >> Compliance first. Yes. Startups.

And those you often have a CFO or a finance manager uh who also doesn't want to do bookkeeping, you know, cuz I I don't know. So I don't know anybody at me. >> I do you want to do bookkeeping? We can I can >> we can introduce some manuality. >> You're right. Let's say you're right. >> Uh usually people don't want to do booking. It's not even accountants. It's not an exciting part of the job. >> What people want to do is they want to analyze the numbers. They want to project. They want to, you know, do budgeting. They want to work with the numbers. >> Yeah. Because in the end, in the end, if you're talking about a finance finance leader, CFO, this is a high value >> resource. Yes.

Person, right? So, you'd rather work on the stuff that actually brings value to the business. Exactly. >> Not only from a cost center perspective, which is has always been traditionally the finance and compliance department, but definitely bringing value from a commercial. >> Exactly. There's way more these people can do than just doing your financial reports. >> And uh so we work with quite a few of these types of setups where there's a CFO um who needs solid numbers to work off, right? You that's that's where we come in. We ensure that the the base is solid. We also save a lot of time. You don't need to hire people.

Hiring people is also very hard and then they get on vacation and they're not there. >> We're always there >> and it's very easy. So we work with a lot of these startups or >> just mid-level businesses who already have some scale and just have a CFO who needs a base in terms of numbers. >> Okay. >> Uh we work with those and we also work with some established traditional businesses. So we have restaurants, we have hotel groups, we have clinics >> because they all face the same issue. >> Yeah.

uh here in UAE it's hard to find enough good people uh if you going to go the traditional route and hire accountants in house >> it's difficult and then you have to expensive difficult lots of managerial overhead because a person as I mentioned they there's always a problem they get sick uh they go on vacation they quit because we're not in Japan they're not going to work until they're 80 for your company right so >> you will have to offboard on board and do know the transfer and as you scale you need to hire more. >> Yeah. >> So even with traditional businesses we help them out because >> with us you will never need to hire another bookkeeper. >> That's the promise. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay.

We'll come back to the promise later. You said something u I think a couple of minutes ago about fines. >> Mhm. >> Want to shortly touch upon that because really what we're trying to cover by the way in this podcast the future of finance right. So uh how do we envision um the finance department to operate?

Um so finance tradition I I just said it finance and compliance traditionally has been seen as a cost center right rather than a value ad if you will and yes the narrative is changing a bit but really depends on who's uh leading that department right and the narrative and the storytelling >> um but I really want to touch upon the fine because a fine is a real thing >> yes >> is a real thing so whether you like it or not whether you're a cost center add value center whatever a fine is a real thing so just to create some type of picture what would you say is the range of service providers in this market. >> Yeah. >> In terms of pricing by the way. Pricing. >> Yeah.

>> And what are the ranges of fines you have seen? >> Yes. >> If you get it right. >> Uh I will tell you that. >> So in terms of service providers, I divide the market into two and a half three major segments. >> Okay. >> First, there are the discounters. >> Super cheap. They're traditional. Uh but they win uh clients through just offering something crazy like a,000 deer for a full year of accounting. >> Thousand for a full year. >> Yeah. Yeah. For a solid number of transactions and how they do it. Yeah. You you you can find those companies and how they do it. >> I want to look into that. >> You might not because we'll get to the point. >> We might not look into that.

Uh because the issue with those guys is that >> it is you're surprised by the price because you know it's impossible.

Yes, >> you cannot do that job for that much money unless literally you get a street food vendor uh somewhere in a different country and you tell them hey just do bookkeeping for this guy you know >> this is not just an example by the way this is >> real >> this is real >> okay yeah real real like >> not just unqualified people very very unqualified people you are not able to afford the quality control and the senior staff >> okay >> uh for that much money because I know we also have people in other countries right and I know how much we pay them and definitely you know, you got to pay for talent. >> So, that's the first that's the first.

They lead to uh inconsistencies in your bookkeeping, late filings, fines, issues that might not be apparent right now, but will creep up later >> because an FT the FTA will check what you've done. They'll come back and all those savings going to be done >> uh quickly. >> What are we talking about? The basics, the most common one I come across is 10,000 dirham >> 10,000 >> for VT registration missed. Very basic, you know, and I I see it all the time or corporate tax. >> And and the highest fine you have seen with clients, >> the highest fine I've seen I think was >> 40ish,000 40ish so far. That was a client who uh actually it was it was one of our clients who stopped responding.

>> Ah, stopped responding. So, so and another one, your accountant asks for things because it's important. Uh, >> mental note, your accountant asks these things because it's important, not for fun. >> Not for fun. >> We're more than a cost center. >> We had a client really who just was busy with business or something, didn't take this seriously, >> and then came back to us, asked, "Oh, what's this?" And we're like, "Yeah, we told you that we need to track your uh, you know, taxable supplies for VAT and this and that and okay, >> this the only way to remedy is to pay fines." But now they're happy client again. Sometimes you need to learn the unfortunately.

>> Scrooge always makes sure that clients uh stay happy. >> My dream >> Yeah. >> is that they're going to stop coming to me after fines >> because I get a lot of >> It's very reactive though, right? It's very reactive to for a fine to actually trigger unfortunately to get things in order >> because a lot of businesses do not appreciate the importance of compliance here. They have not dealt with that before and they just think oh it's okay I'll call my cousin and they'll sort it out. >> So this thing about compliance touching upon you know companies not taking it serious. What would you say is it like a cultural thing structurally embedded? Uh where does this come from?

>> I think it's a mix of culture and legacy. >> Yeah. Uh UAE is trying really hard. >> Okay. >> Uh to make regulatory changes well known. >> They would send you SMS. >> You received them as well. >> I received those. >> They would have webinars. They do emails. They try to share this information. Hey, look, there's VAT now. There's corporate tax now. They even give you fine waiverss if you're late. >> But a lot of people are still because of marketing or whatever.

they're still in this mode of oh Dubai zero tax zero obligations come here easy uh that's not how it works and also sometimes culturally >> speaking if if founders we've noticed the founders come from countries that have a legacy of very strict tax regulations okay like I don't know UK US even Russia you know as well if you screw up they'll come for you >> yeah so better not it will be more expensive >> correct >> right but it's different There are many countries around the world and UEI is full of founders from all over the world. So it's a mix of legacy and just cultural uh attitude that hey I will not get hit by things. >> Last point on the fine.

So let's talk about this um client we're talking about that had a 40k fine. >> Yeah. >> 40,000 DM fine in the grand scheme of things of that person's business. Does it move a dent? >> It's it's a Rolex. It's a Rolex, but in the wider scheme of things, >> depends on the business. >> On the business. Yes. So that particular >> if you're printing like a million, right? A million DM. Yes. >> A month. 40K. >> He's doing well for himself. >> Okay. >> So it's not a huge issue thankfully because that can be a business shutdown type of fine. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh but it's not pretty and if you will let it let it acrue. The issue is that it's not just hey 10,000 fine and you're done.

uh if you miss filing if you especially if you owe tax you don't file you're going to get uh you know interest and it's going to >> yeah interest is going to acrew and compound >> so it can go up to forever >> okay >> right in some cases it can be very big or if you are in you need to be registered for ML which real estate businesses need to be or businesses like ours etc or jewelry and you don't do that that can be also a license revoke type of type of an issue that can just shut down your whole business. >> So, it can be very big. For some, it's small, but it's still not nice. It's not It's not a coffee.

>> No, it's not it's not good for profiling, but >> it's multiple salaries as well that you could have paid. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, that's the that's the cheap >> that's the discounter, right? And the fine part. >> Then you're asking about who's in the market. You have the traditional players >> who are, you know, traditional expensiveish consultants. Something you might notice in the market is that if you go on somebody's website, usually their pricing is not on it. >> Yeah. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Unlike ours. Uh check out our website. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They actually have prices on their website. >> Yes. Yeah. Those are actual re That's the price, right?

>> That's what we're actually paying. >> Plus VT. >> Plus V. Yes. Yes. It says plus VT. Yes. Uh because why why do they do that? because they work off of this traditional consulting model where you try to figure out how much you can squeeze the client for. So basic example, I have let's say I don't know I have a client from Thailand versus I have a client from the US. >> Okay? >> I have a client who is an investor versus somebody who wants to open a small cafe. >> You're gonna try to squeeze the US investor much more even though the work might be exactly the same. Unfortunately, that's the way these business models often work. >> That sounds a bit uh how would you say that?

It's not really honest gain, is it? Or maybe I'm adding too much value system on this thing, but >> it's it's not the best system. >> It's it's because it's not tying the price to the actual difficulty of work. It's pay pay. Yeah. It's just unfair. >> What about the value of the work?

because I guess getting proper accounts for a big firm in the US probably >> would be of much greater value than a smaller firm and I'm just feeling >> just >> yeah if you want to play devil's advocate yes they value it more >> so they would they would be willing to say okay to this price that's exactly why these guys charge them like that >> but what happens and that's where I'm getting to we come to these guys after and the real cases we just say look it's three times cheaper what we will do for you is three times cheaper plus faster plus technological plus we are actually often times more precise >> okay >> yeah and that's it so that's this system of oh let me squeeze this guy is only a matter of time until >> the word gets to this client that something can be different or a mistake happens >> and we have a lot of switchers on the bigger side that have this exact same experience.

They just didn't know it was a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> But every they're also okay to pay less, right? Uh and we can prove that we're good. So three times cheaper, two times cheaper is what they get when they go with us on that on that bigger business side. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And then the third one >> is our segment which is like 2.5 because they're not there's nobody there essentially. It's us. >> Yeah. uh we are able to provide very senior level of service and attention to clients but we also have the technology. Okay. So we save time for the client.

We make fewer mistakes and we can keep prices reasonable for the quality and attention you get because we don't need to hire 150 people to to work on that scale. We process documents automatically. Uh and a lot of the a lot of the processes that come into bookkeeping don't require human involvement or require minimal human involvement. So you are the only one in this space >> that I'm aware of that has real technology. >> Real technology which we just spoke about. Okay. Interesting. Thank you for that uh coverage. I think very important especially the point on fines. Um so >> I really wanted to flesh that one out.

>> So now um you talk to a lot of industries, companies, CFOs, finance leaders uh you know being co-founder and grow responsible for growth. >> Imagine you're sitting across a CFO or finance leader. What would you say would be should be the two or three top items on the agenda for the coming year of two? >> Yes. So number one I would say build a solid base or foundation. >> Mhm. >> We just we discussed this, right? Uh make sure the numbers add up and make sure that the way they're done is um is done in technological and high quality manner. Okay? Because without solid numbers on the ground, you cannot really make decisions.

And the job of a CFO is to help >> the CEO or the board to make decisions based on numbers that they see. >> Okay. >> But if the numbers are wrong, it's an issue. >> So you making this the first point means that there are enough companies that don't have that. >> There are companies that don't have that or don't know that they don't have that. >> Right? Because I would say, okay, when I'm talking to a CFO, it's a little bit different. But when I'm talking to a CFO that is just getting started, let's say >> a startup or a big company >> or or a fractional CFO CFO. Okay, >> that's that it's a bit different when hey I'm a CFO already. So they already have the foundation. >> Okay.

>> I would tell the second point to them. >> Uh yes, but if you're starting start with the right foundation right now to Got it. >> Yeah. Fractional or CFO of a company that is getting started as early as possible >> because it's harder to fix later on. >> Correct. to minimize human involvement um in very labor intensive processes >> like bookkeeping. I know companies that have five people that just work document collection, make sure that supplier invoices come in and they chase them and then they do data entry uh or they upload receipts into Zoho or something like that, you know.

Okay, >> lots of manual work and when you have a lot of people, >> that's where processes can break >> because it's hard to control >> and as I mentioned before, people take vacations, they get sick, they're not there when needed. You need to teach them, but then they will leave unlike technology that will never leave. Right? So ideally you want to have people where there's higher value ad work possible where there's more analytical work or there's a it's not repetitive repetitive work nowadays can be automated away. >> Okay. Um I love what you're saying there. So it's not about discounting the value of people.

No, we want to elevate >> people to do highrofile work, valuable work of course >> rather than repetit repetitive. People need to do something that is higher value ad and better and something they would they would enjoy doing more. >> People don't enjoy doing bookkeeping. >> I know >> we can but we don't enjoy >> you. It's something you got to do you know like there's also lots of parts of my job that you just got to do but if that was the only part of my job I would be I would be >> Yeah. It needs to be a balance. >> Yeah. >> Third point. >> Uh yes.

Third point, I think the CFO needs to find a C to work with a CEO that understands the value of the finance function because we mentioned that often times or historically it's been looked at as cost sense. Why do I need it? I just needed to file tax. >> But really, >> not being on top of your numbers is the number one killer of businesses. You just don't see it coming. and the proper finance function that gets support from the the management, the CEO or the board, they can add so much more value, especially if they're effective, >> efficient in the way they do things.

So, they become a less a smaller cost center, right, but higher value and then you could help the business grow faster because you can pinpoint what's what's the issue uh or what is working well, where do you need the capital injection. >> Very good. >> Uh, etc. >> Yeah, that's actually interesting. Because this is exactly how uh we see finance a tribe. Um I would say if you would ask me um how does your finance team look like? I would say is the CEO, COO and me. >> Exactly. >> And Scrooge by the way. >> And and why is that the case? Uh because um once we can communicate in that type of forum, right? Finance doesn't become uh a responsibility of a finance department in isolation.

it becomes the responsibility of the whole company right where um there's openness and transparency of uh numbers um projections revenue growth in your case um and in particular if you're raising I mean we're a startup you know and uh we are looking forward to the growth trajectory um that uh we see in the market it's quite promising market for us as a property tokenization platform and um one of the things that we get scrutinized on is finances, financial modeling, projections, validation of numbers, CAC and LTVs and uh valuations and multiples, right? So these are the things that investors look like look at. Exactly.

So yes, they do a tech DD, but uh I occasionally do get questions on um finance and then it is I guess very supportive if CEO Gary and uh Sebastian also shout out to Sebastian um are there to actually help me flesh out the things that are actually important for different audiences. >> Exactly. >> If you will, right? So I think that is for me talking about the future of finance is a a department that doesn't run in isolation as a cost center but adds value to the whole business. Right. >> That's the way it should be. >> Yeah. Right. That's the way it should be. Exactly.

And to that point the last point what I also see in tribe is um when I used to work at PWC because we since we both have a background at PWC by the way my uh the industry that I was very active in was banking. So I was a consultant to banks um on the regulatory domain. So there was a project that um we were on and um I was assessing their product approval process >> and what I noticed in the product approval process is that finance comes at the last stage. So yeah we figured out this project it makes commercial sense and everybody's happy with it. We need finance to sign off.

>> Yeah >> for me that is too late and that's actually you know not giving finance the place that it actually deserves. Right. So the advice and what we also see in tribe and what we have implemented at tribe is that as we're developing the product finance is one of the lenses we need to look at commercial marketing uh growth finance compliance right as part of the product approval so that as we go through that journey that we don't have these um structural blockers that have been traditionally there. So what does that give us? It gives us speed. Yeah. >> Right.

And speed is one of the most important thing at least in the industry that we're in right fintech prop tech uh we have a lot of regulatory tailwind wins but speed is so important and you can only get that done when we're locked in like that right so I thought when you said that about uh you know finance and how you guys look at it I was like this is exactly how we at tribe also look at it >> and I also got to say that >> involving the finance team from the beginning it removes internal team friction Because because otherwise >> love it >> you're going to get annoyed at that CFO that tells you no we don't have budget at the very end >> and you already have spent so much time and effort and you're like this guy always never supports me it's just even though you're in the same team >> that's why bringing bringing this team in and giving them agency to contribute is just going to make it easier.

Yeah, I love that agency for the team. >> We need to agency guys. We we need to work on agency of the finance department. >> So look, future of finance. Yeah. Um how does future of finance look for you at Scrooge AI for the coming five years? What does it look like? >> Give us a picture. >> Yes. >> So the future will will involve the continuous automation of way of labor intensive tasks. uh that will h that is already happening and companies like us already are able to do it to a significant extent and there will be more and more and more of that.

>> Uh so accountants will need to upskill >> upskill >> to do something that is adding more value has less to do with document >> you know checking documents for compliance and doing reconciliation >> that will be automated by tech players. Uh so that's one >> one tech place. >> Uh two there will be more general AI exposure. So for example, >> I I think that AI will also move into the advisory part. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So for example, I I read in the news that Lloyd's Bank has an AI agent on the board now. >> Uh right. So it's in test mode because obviously right now when I say that makes you laugh, >> but in 5 years >> we'll see. Right. because it it just normalizes.

So that's how fast it's going. Yeah. >> But I will still I will stick to my um to my principle of keeping the beast locked in a cage. >> Okay. >> You don't just let the AI agent on the board now make all decisions at Lloyd, right? You you give them agency to contribute and be another voice, but in a in a very limited manner. Isn't it? >> So I do expect AI to be helping more with >> the analytical part of the job making the job of the CFO even easier. >> Yes. >> Because because that you know yes you have numbers but also to analyze them that takes time especially at large organizations >> like an proper FPNA >> Yes. >> type of function if you will. >> Yeah.

>> And also the future of finance I think in in UE also specifically it will be more interconnected uh meaning open banking. >> Open banking. Yes. Yes, which is very important for proper accounting functionality. >> Especially when it comes to bank reconciliation, >> it's so bad that you need to download statements. >> That's a real blocker. >> Yeah, >> that's a real that's one of the things I was so surprised about.

So central bank if you're here this is a note for you guys to expedite um open banking project and if any bank has a responsibility to expedite this process um I would like to encourage you to do so so that companies such as tribe screwji and all the clients that flat is supporting can actually do a great job when it comes to finance. Thank you flat. >> No more downloading bank statements. Yes, exactly. >> So that's the future in in for the industry, >> right? Uh I don't know. Do you want me to tell the future for us from our perspective? >> Yes, I do. >> One thing I wanted to add on to what you said about um keeping the beast in the box. Yes.

The way we do it at tribe is uh we fully embrace um AI, the power of AI and the potential of AI um which is currently actually quite embedded in everything that we do from marketing to the compliance to operations and even if we need to set up a regulatory document, finance even. Uh but what I love you know about what we're doing and that's something that our CTO Hunter and uh Sebastian our CEO are very you know on top of is how do we create such a process and include human gates at the right point. >> Yeah. >> Right. Human gates at the right point so that it becomes a human ownership but supported by AI.

So just wanted to add that practical insight as to how we at tribe are you know implementing that >> that's very important. Yeah that's why we have this human in the loop as well because you need control over the system by somebody who understands what's happening. >> Very good. Thank you. Let's talk about screwi. We've spoken about the future of finance. Where do you play a part in this future? >> Uh we will be handling the accounting and taxation work for most companies here. Uh and why is because we are looking to expand our functionality. >> Okay.

>> So we're constantly releasing features and the latest one uh which would be interesting for smaller businesses is for example invoice creation on the go through WhatsApp bot. >> Okay. >> So I use it myself. For example, I I was on a road trip to a line two week ago and a client just wanted to pay. Now >> I'm not going to whip out. >> That's a nice thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's good. >> That's good. and then like give me the invoice. Yeah. Uh but I'm not going to whip out my laptop, open Zoho Books and create an invoice thing or something like that.

>> I I just uh typed in the message uh hey Scrooge create invoice this client this address this uh service line and it did it in one minute >> because you had a foundation. >> We had the foundation foundation to me. >> Yeah. In the accounting software we have the product lines we built the product to create the the entry. >> Right. you don't need to go into the accounting soft anymore. So that's one. >> It also allows you to download reports already. So you can take a look at what invoices have been raised and do basic analytics like AI report, AI reports, etc. Aging. >> Uh that's there already but more is coming. So we're moving more into um analytical uh the analytical part. >> Okay.

>> Right. Because we do have a lot of data that we will be looking step by step to help uh our clients. We will be looking to help them understand the data and help them understand where to look, what to do and what can be improved. >> Okay, >> that will be coming and to help with that also we'll be working on a lot of integrations. So some are coming very very soon and those integrations usually have to do with payments providers providers or expense providers or lenders >> who would be connected into Scrooge and would be a substitute for open banking which is not there yet.

So for example, if I connect to a digital payment provider, I automatically get the transactions and if you're a user of this payment provider, you will not need to download statements and your reconciliation will happen automatically. >> So for example, we in terms the PSP that we using currently is tap payments. >> Mhm. >> Right. So for example, tap payments has payment reports and all those stuff. So at some point in time, not saying that it's going to be tap payment, but then you would have the functionality to actually integrate >> Yes.

Yes, with payments and therefore whatever payment is then uh distributed on our account bank account you would be able through the uh the the reconciliation or the the connection with that payment to actually >> it would land in our system live and we would create either if they create the invoice tax invoice on their side we would download it or some system they don't create any invoices we would create the tax invoice that's it you have the payment right there you see it and then reflected. >> I mean what I'm hearing is uh a lot of efficiency and effectiveness in the finance department. Again, why?

So that >> finance leaders, CFOs, whatever the title may be, can actually add value based on the numbers that are presented. That's the goal, right? That's the goal. >> That's the goal. Good. >> So this is block byblock and the way we always uh close off block by block is uh we talk about tribe and predictions about tribe. So you know a small bit about tribe and uh we have also spoken about some of the things that we do at tribe. So what I would love to hear from you because we're building out in the open and that's why we're sitting here. That's why we have the number one prop tech podcast in the UAE. Exactly. >> And we're going global.

I would like to hear from you both opportunities and blockers. >> Uh well not going to blockers challenges. >> Challenges. >> Yeah. Opportunities and challenges >> for try. >> For try. >> All right.

So I think challenge some challenges would be that from a layman's perspective >> uh tokenization of property >> is emerging and some education would need to happen to get more and more clients on board so that's similar to what we do right I like to say we're half an edtech company because I need to tell people that they actually have to do >> tax company so so that's >> it's just a challenge to overcome it's normal right because when you're early players at an emer in an emerging industry you do educate people but then you capture that market as you educate right uh and >> yeah very good education >> education is is a challenge to be overcome but on the other hand something that is a great opportunity and I see that a lot already is you guys are very active online and with marketing >> I see you all the time and that's where it's at creating content is a secret weapon >> because content is always there especially when you have the number one prop tech tag podcast in UEE already.

>> Well, I'm saying yeah, >> uh you're on social media. I see you guys all the time. That helps a lot because it's branding that just it it gets into people's minds. >> Nowadays when I go to an event, it's often that I hear like I saw you somewhere, Vlad, I know, right? And you're you're I'm sure you're already getting a lot of that and only more will become >> more welcome. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time and the energy and the openness. >> It's a pleasure. >> Right. So, uh we need to do this more often. for sure not always behind the camera but also outside of the camera. So this was block byblock covering the future of finance.

I have flash with screwji he's co-founder growth and we love working with them so you should get in contact with him website it tells you exactly what the pricings are. It's not like the other traditional ones and a few learnings from my side build the foundations. Yeah when you look into the future it's going to be technologydriven as well. Thirdly, look AI is great but keep the beast in the box. How we do it and I think uh flat secundered that is human gates. Where are the human gates and therefore ensuring that humans keep having ownership of the finance process. Last point from my side finance is much bigger than the finance department in isolation. It's a whole company.

It's the CEO, CEO, CMO, everyone that actually earns money for the company and whoever pays right. So it's both payments and collections that is the finance department. This was block byb block Dennis Vlad future of finance. Cheers. Thank you.