Dubai Property: Panic or Profit

If you were to invest today, what area are you kind of looking at from an investor perspective? >> I would focus more on central areas and we had predicted that in Dubai there's going to be a correction. >> Do you think there's any cause for panic? >> Tough spot. I also think that this is not something that we have seen before in the market. There was this website called panic selling and that website like scared us a little bit. Now is the right time to buy because there are, you know, people are dumping their properties. >> We're in a chaotic phase right now. Like you see everyone like running around like headless chicken. So you get a,000 called do you want to sell?

Do you want to sell? Do you want to sell? >> The majority of repricing is in the under 10% bracket. Is that simply because people were getting greedy? >> We're still not in a place where buyer and seller are seeing the market the same way. Because if we were in that place, we'll be seeing a lot more transactions. The reality is the market was slowing down due to the massive supply that was coming. I think now there's a recalibration. >> So many people are choosing to call Dubai home throughout this chaotic and challenging time is that they have seen Dubai reinvent itself time and time and time again. >> People who were like, "Okay, good opportunities.

Let me buy, let me move. There are good deals that are coming." This chaos has brought about the opportunity for people to self-destruct. >> With every challenge, there's an opportunity. And we thought that there's definitely an opportunity here. You know, everywhere and everything is discounted, but there are very selective good deals. So, I would just keep my eyes open on a good deal regardless of where it is. >> No one's going to be fooled by a really good Instagram video anymore. You have to have the data. You have to have empathy. >> But you need to be one very careful on those opportunities and also be very aware of the data behind it.

Welcome to the number one prop tech podcast in Dubai blockby block where we share our journey of building tribe in public. Today I have a very special guest and a very special friend and a part of the Orisa ecosystem, Ranim Alskaf from Prop AI. Ranim, would you do us the honor of introducing yourself? >> Uh, sure. Thank you for having me on the podcast. So, um, my background is a little bit different. I do not come from a real estate background. I funnily enough have a bachelor in biology, a masters in health management. Then I >> didn't see that one coming. >> Then I came to Mckenzie back in the days because I didn't want to do anything specific.

I did three years of being a generalist, went to HBS, got my MBA, came back and then focused on real estate and >> HBS for those that are not >> Harvard Business School. >> There we go. >> You never want to say it. And then when I came back, I actually started working on real estate. It was very cool journey because I was working on real estate projects between here and Saudi Arabia and I was in Saudi Arabia. I was working on the mega giga projects. So setting up consortiums with with people uh from uh urban designers to master planners to engineers etc. So there's a lot of data that was involved in that.

Then I uh during COVID as many would do I moved to private equity was was doing healthcare and real estate. Um so we were doing the the propco part of it. So I was also very much involved in the real estate here. And then four years ago we wanted to solve the issue is if I want to invest in real estate where would I invest in real estate? Um there was not enough or there was a lot of data but none of it actually made sense to me. So we embarked on the journey of building prop AI to help any investor find the right property to invest in.

Um we wanted to do it globally started in Dubai um a great place to start went very deep into the data and build the infrastructure for uh real estate data in the UAE. We started working on it. We were looking into trends build machine learning models forecasting and um 3 months ago we're constantly monitoring the market. We were looking into what's going to happen in Dubai with all the supply etc. And we had predicted uh that in Dubai there's going to be a correction coming in mid of this year. Then of course we got some surprise to start in in beginning of March and then now the market is recalibrating and working again.

And that's why we find that we're in a great place because now is when data is very much needed to understand and proper process properly what's happening. >> So let's get straight into it. Uh we recently released a report uh yourself, your team, Alistister Cormarmac, great report and something quite refreshing because there's always a lot of hype every month, every quarter. Um and the purpose of this report was to remove that hype and be absolutely objective and use data which is your business. Um you know oil is the business of the UAE and data is is you know the the secondary one now and and you're building right into that.

So, if you look at the Q1 data uh from 2026, what do you think is the thing that people aren't quite looking closely enough at or maybe misreading? >> I think what happened right now is is of course unfortunate or so many different levels. I think it we had a very good start of the year. January, February was very very good.

I think there we had a lot of momentum both on ready and off plan while the report mainly focuses on ready which is um a bigger or a more realistic indicator because if you look at it off plan very much depends on who's launching what what is being launched when is it being registered and um and what is the pricing so it's very much dictated by the developers versus what the people want and it's mainly cash abroad etc. I think Ready reflects more the reality of the market. There was still a lot of of of ready properties being uh being sold and transacted I would say.

Uh but um I think there was January was doing well, February was a little bit slower but March was after everything that happened it it definitely crashed. And also keeping in mind that uh while March we have seen a massive dip, this is still not um 100% indicative or reflective of the what the market is because if you buy in February, you have 30 to 45 days to register. So even some of the things that came in on in March was were still closed in February. >> The reality is the market was slowing down. We all knew the market was slowing down. The market was slowing down due to the massive supply that was coming.

But I wasn't g for me I don't think it was going to be a slowdown on um the ready this the slowdown was going to be on the off market and now we've seen it first on the ready unfortunately but it's mainly just the situation that's going on. >> Do you think there's any cause for panic uh in the in the real estate space? Do you think there's you know more to come? What do you think the the the coming months uh you know bring in >> Yeah. >> from a data a data perspective? We're in a like tough spot. I also think that this is not something that we have seen before in the market. We have seen co as a slowdown. Yeah.

>> However, co it was it was in a situation where Dubai was doing so well as compared to the rest of the world whereas now we're in the exact opposite where Dubai is not doing so well as as um opposed to the world. I don't think there is yet a reason to panic and the reason why >> is we're constantly monitoring what's happening in the market. We haven't seen panic selling. We haven't seen sellers that are now just want to dump their properties and leave. I think everyone is still on, you know, waiting and seeing. Um I can like 82% of the listings that have dropped in the past month have dropped between 0 and 10%. And I wouldn't call that panic selling.

It was anyway a correction that was going to come. I think the market was becoming a little bit saturated. So we haven't seen that. Now we will come and start seeing that more and more like hopefully not. But if this conflict keeps dragging, we might start seeing that because the ready market is very much correlated with usage which means by population here. >> Yeah. >> Um so now we still don't have any idea about what's happening about how many people are coming back versus not coming back. Now on Monday schools are going to start. So we're going to see how many of those people are coming back to >> I think the traffic will tell us right the leading indicator.

So just going back on to the the the data question then um obviously out of every crisis there is opportunity. Dubai took COVID and grabbed it by the the scruff of the neck and and made made really good from it. >> Um obviously at Prop AI you've recently launched the the deal index. Uh tell us a little bit about that and how did that how did you was that something that was in the pipeline or was that just something that was born out of the uh out of the you know the geopolitical crisis? You know, I'm sure you like with every challenge there's an opportunity and we thought that there's definitely an opportunity here for the transparency that you you have mentioned before.

We were when this entire thing started, we were seeing a lot of positive news, a lot of people coming out and saying, "No, the market is strong. No, look, we're still seeing all of these transactions. Um, and we thought that this might be a little bit misleading." So, um, when we build the buy deal index, the entire idea behind it is to understand whether you need to buy or not based on actual signals. So we have identified four signals. One was the market activity that we're seeing that is dropping bit by bit.

The other one was about the market demand and here we looked into people coming in and out of the country because there's a strong correlation between people visiting and about people going on websites such as property finder bay etc. And looking at this we looked at um at price pressure and price pressure is the amount of deals and people that are dropping prices. And the entire idea behind it is the more deals there are, the more likely you are to buy. So it was so basically there's a correlation there. And finally, it was the sentiment. It was uh the sentiment was about uh oil prices and oil prices there's a soft spot. You don't want it to be too cheap.

You also don't want it to be too expensive. And then new sentiment and how's the market re how's the market reacting to everything that's happening. So, and this was funnily enough the most volatile of all four because because >> oil is going up and down, but also one day there's a ceasefire and then the news are like all positive and rosy and then the next day >> you know something happens and then things again.

So, >> so I think this is a really good example of uh, you know, the the ability to adapt so quickly, certainly from a product perspective, because the thing that I've seen from from both Prop AI and you is that this has almost kind of forced you into the spotlight pretty quickly, right? You're you're sitting on this data or the equivalent of oil, you know, using that kind of metaphor. Um, but the thing that has been nice to see is also you as the the the leader of the business kind of just get out there and and talking more about it. How did is that again something that was a conscious decision or a reaction or something that was planned?

>> I I want to say it's a little bit of both, but I'm sure you guys are also in the same in the same place at the moment. No. Uh and I think we also wanted to be more vocal about what we're doing. We also wanted to be more vocal about the fact that um data should be used a little bit better.

Um we had seen this we had talked about it a lot about real estate is still an emotional thing that people do while it's completely fair but it's still there is a lot of value in the data and then the fact that data is while being used is still being used in a biased way which for me is mindblowing because like when you're analytical you need to look at things objectively. uh so we thought that this is a great opportunity to prove in full honesty and transparency what is the value of the data but also being very open about it and taking whatever may come in that. So before we launched it, there was this website that was out in the first two days which was called Panic Selling.

>> And that website like scared us a little bit because it was monitoring the luxury uh listings on the market. And it was literally when it first went out, it was monitoring the 14 or 17 listings and saying calling it panic selling, saying everyone is selling like crazy and like dropping prices. And when we went and then tried to look at it, we're like, okay, it's really not indicative because it's a very limited set of listings. And even if those listings are dropping 30%. It was because they were put on the market on a price that was extremely above fair market value.

So there is so when we wanted to build this we wanted to build it in a way where it's not just people are dropping prices but whether people are dropping prices to below the fair market value or still within fair market value which is fair and fine and we actually want that to happen. >> Um so we felt the need to actually the need and the opportunity to be that we need to >> build something and come out something. It felt like a little bit our responsibility because we're sitting on so much data and we want to leverage it in the best way possible. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And I think um you know the the panic selling platform as much as it is a little bit you know a bit of hype again right and and the real estate >> kind of marketing sphere and if you ask Alistister he's not here at the moment but if you ask him his opinion on that you know he'll give it to you bluntly but it is you know salesled storytelling right and very emotive and and as it should be right that's what has historically sold properties but >> that's what we're seeing like we talk to brokers all the time and then now the bro brokers have this narrative when they call people be like now is the right to right time to buy because there are you know people are dumping their properties and this is again you know a way of telling a story to sell fast.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

But you know the brokers and and you know the other agents they have a a you know rightly so a selfish motive to sell property right they need to >> with you guys it's it is objective and I think that's the nice thing is you give that you know view of the land. you're not trying to sell a specific property or a specific developer and I would liken you I don't know if you've if you've come across magnet the venture platform and Philillip as my old next door neighbor um but he does the same thing right he has this impartial view of the venture ecosystem whether that's the investors the startups the you know this the the supporting network and and he again has has used the opportunity of a growing space you know startup and venture capital in in the Mina region it's even broader than that now.

But um and and it was nice to see you guys take the opportunity, like I say, to build that impartial voice. I hope it stays. Um so I hope there's, you know, there there's more videos and more more updates from the deal index. Um >> just going back to the pricing bit a little bit. I think it's important just to touch on it. You mentioned that the the the majority of repricing is in the under 10% >> bracket. Um >> is that simply because people are getting greedy, do you think?

To be fair, if you look at it, we're still not in a place where buyer and seller are seeing the market the same way because if we were in that place, >> yeah, >> uh we'll be seeing a lot more transactions. >> So, we're not seeing a lot of transactions just yet because we also don't think that the sellers and the market and the market and the buyers are actually assessing the situation in the same way. There's still a little bit of of imbalance and the reality is that we've had a lot of buyers sign up. >> Yeah. So you can see that there is appetite for the market, but they have priced it a little bit lower than what the sellers are doing.

So the sellers are just if they're not um in a desperate need for cash, >> which would have been the case regardless, they're still waiting to see if this is going to end soon or not because if it ends soon, then the pricing is going to be very different. Then this drags for another 3 months.

And then there is always this small voice that says or not the small voice the big voice that says uh you know we're going to reach a ceasefire next week and then hopefully things will go back to normal or if things not go back to normal we have a better understanding of the lay of land how >> the traffic goes >> correct yeah and I think you know whilst you have the the objectivity of the data the underlying data set you then have to apply like the seasonality factors and the variables right we are going into perhaps an extended summer >> yeah so everyone like like or or What we think is anyway nothing's going to pick up massively until September. Yeah.

>> Or October when people come back and there is a much clearer view or understanding of or of where we we sit. >> Yeah. >> Uh of where we sit. Um the correction was coming anyway. So um >> and so if September let's say is the big restart um you know Dubai 3.0 know or whatever, you know, whatever version we're on now. Uh, and we've seen several of them. And the great thing is, and I think the the encouraging thing why so many people are choosing to call Dubai home throughout this chaotic and challenging time is that they have seen Dubai reinvent itself time and time and time again.

Um, what needs to happen, I guess, over the next 6 months to to get us there to that, you know, next version. I even saw they shut the Bal Arab yesterday for 18 months. So, um, for >> that's always Yeah, that was always the Have you been into Bal Arab in inside? >> No, but they're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, it needs one. Yeah, it's it's it's 27 years old. I think the renovation is about 25 years overdue to be honest. So, uh, >> yeah. No, but I think it was like I was there maybe a year ago and it was always the plan when they open Jamaa Marsalada for them to shut down this and then but 18 months that's a big renovation project, isn't it?

>> They've got to they've got to outdo themselves. So, so what what you know what what happens now? What what do you I know you don't have a crystal ball. You have some data what two weeks of data already. What do you see Q2 playing out to be? If we sit down again at the end of or you know early Q3 and discuss the report again, what do you think we'll be seeing? >> It it really depends on how this is going to unfold. Um I think we do have multiple scenarios like we put in the like we put in the report. Yeah. Um I think we can dismiss the first one. I think we're looking into midterm to longterm at the moment.

Um, and I sure hope that it's going to be the the midterm one where we're going to see a little bit of correction which I think the market needs anyway. >> Yeah. >> Um, it's less so maybe correction. It's more so rebalancing the expectations of sellers because I think sellers were going completely like >> and rightly so they were riding the wave but the expectations were becoming a little bit unrealistic.

I think now there's a recalibration and I think now um if this ends prices are going to drop but we're going to see a significant amount of transactions because then the buyers are going to be like okay we're we're seeing a little bit of more uh let's say realistic prices but I also think that the first um demand is going to be internal. >> So it's going to be a lot of people who were renting because they could not afford or because they were d waiting for the market to drop to go and buy.

So I think the first wave is going to be internal where people who were like okay good opportunities let me buy let me move um and stuff like that and then we're going to start to see hopefully the trust come back from the external from external people or foreigners who are still interested in investing. Um now we also need to understand and look into not also not only releases but I want to say um handovers.

We need to see how smart or how realistic is it going to be the handover of units because if now the amount of units that we were expecting is going to come to the market now that might be a little bit painful to the market. if there is a little bit of roll back and then releasing these units bit by bit in order to um you know understand the amount of people are coming back rebalance these things I think this would be a bit smarter because if there's a dump of of handover units right now we're kind of burning the market and I really really hope that that doesn't happen.

Yeah, I think you know one of the reasons we started or actually one of the core reasons we started Tribe was to support those people that you mentioned that have lived here for a year, 10 years or anything in between and not had the ability or financial capability to to buy a property. One, because their savings just didn't permit it, but two, the price is just continually going, you know, um bonkers and out of reach. We've seen doubledigit growth in in prices for like three years in a row and that's >> Yeah. And we have, you know, we have to solve that home ownership >> crisis or problem.

Maybe crisis is a little bit too dramatic, but there's so many people that live in Dubai, make it their home for a long the long mid to long term, but simply cannot afford to own a piece of it. And that's something I know that the Department of Economy and Tourism are are working on and and the DoD, but >> now's the chance, right? If ever there was a chance to really reward, for one of a better word, the people that stuck here, you know, supported the UAE, >> you know, uh, >> argued against the narrative that was coming out of the the Western media about Dubai being done, you know, particularly out of the UK, sadly.

Um, but you know, how do we how does Dubai support those people that have made Dubai home that want to continue making Dubai home but actually don't own their home? >> For me, that's a real issue that there's a huge opportunity to collectively solve. Hopefully, tribe can be a big part of that. But >> how do you guys like um I'm assuming you guys are starting with own a piece of a property and going into own a full property. Can >> correct?

And that's something one very transparently and you know we've started conversations with uh DET >> um regarding their firsttime home buyer program which is an incredible initiative >> but there's so many more people that it can serve um and and how can we extend that to to more people by bringing the barrier to entry of home ownership down from 20% deposit right down to 2,000 dirhams right that's really the the focus for us so getting people on that ladder and and with tribe having the right of first refusal for tenants in a tribe property to to buy secondary tokens >> that's a really important part of our value proposition because we want the tenant to be at the heart of the the property right it's their home right like >> so you're going to allow the tenant to buy these secondary shares and >> before anyone else so they have the right of first refusal and again that's been one of our core pillars from day one is >> you know there's so many people that rent in Dubai and 100% of people that rent in Dubai do not own that property obviously, right?

So, this is a new way of us changing that and giving people the ability to start owning a piece of the place they call home with the view of eventually perhaps being able to buy it. But beyond tribe, you know, we can serve one tenant at a time, 10 tenants at a time, and as we tokenize properties, tribe isn't the the solution. It's one part of the solution. And the solution is how does Dubai reward those people and really support laying firm roots and and you know building equity in in real estate because that's the ultimate sense of security, right? Physical you know shelter at the end of the day it's like your home. >> Correct. Exactly.

>> And it's it's a lot more difficult for you to like I I know for myself it's a lot more difficult for me to leave my home and go somewhere or like if I'm a tenant I'll just come down and be like all right I'm done. I just pack up and leave. That's it. >> And it's it's it's a lot easier. But I actually want to ask you a question because there's a lot of >> This works by the way. >> I know. >> Okay. >> I did not sign a contract. I did not say I'm going to play by the rules. >> I would expect nothing less. That's exactly why you're here. >> No, the question is a little bit uh so there is a lot of of real estate to that.

But I I know you guys are also more in touch with the the finance world and how and how all of these things are happening in the in the background. I don't know whether you have any intel but I've been hearing a little bit of different narratives. Some people are saying ah they're pumping or the government is pumping money into the banking system so that they allow to drop down the 20% to 10% uh you know down payment etc. But then others are saying no banks now are being very conservative and then they're bringing in valuations that are ridiculous. So you cannot even get an LTV of 80% anymore and like where do you see this like >> Yeah.

I mean I've already I'm not going to talk about the banks cuz I've I've already gotten in enough trouble about that. Um but this is this is this is Yeah, I know you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're just about to get our license from from the regulator. So yeah um I have to at least wait until after the event.

So you know again I see the biggest opportunity for Dubai to supportmemes to support families who have created value here right you don't have to be an entrepreneur to benefit from you know these initiatives you can just be a good hardworking person that has you know invested time in Dubai and and built a life here maybe got married had a family whatever or is still single but has lived here for for 10 years like everyone is equal I think that's the beautiful thing about Dubai and why people like to live here is that sense of um opportunity and to a certain degree fairness. But when these kind of bigger initiatives come through it, it gets lost somewhere, right?

And and the banking point is a really good point in that you know mortgages like now is the time to look at the LTV ratio, right? >> Why not? Right? Particularly if you have lived here for let's say 5 years, right? Or if you have a golden visa, right? So many people have a golden visa now but don't own a property. That's mad, right? Because you've said I want to stay here for 10 years. >> Yeah. But I'm like, >> but I cannot afford to buy here, so I'm going to have to carry on renting and I'm stuck in that vicious circle.

So, so yes, there are the excellent government initiatives, whether it's propping up the central bank or, you know, deploying a billion durhams into the economy or you know, but it's it'smemes and the startups. I mean, think how many startups are we're part of DFHQ. I think on the Slack channel there's like 700 people. If on average that's 300 people per startup, you're still talking about, you know, 200 plus startups just in that one yeah space, >> they need help, right? That's that's the bit that needs really shoring up. And we we talked off camera, we'll talk on camera now about funding. Fundraising is really really hard for startups in this part of the world always.

Even in bull markets at peak times is still really hard. We're in the opposite environment right now. So I think that's where the opportunity really exists again is to help those people that make Dubai home and those people that are building value here. So I really hope that happens. Let's see uh let's come back and and talk again in in a few months time and see if any help made its way down to the like the ground floor of building. >> And and there's definitely things that have worked. No, because I came here 14 years ago. It was completely different. No, like it was people who are here on average for two years. It's a completely different >> 100%.

>> Like like the community is very different because it was very transitional like you would come here, you spend 2 years, you'd explore ah it's very cool and then you go back home but now very like the majority of my friends or people that I sit with or people that I meet have been here more than 5 years which means that there's an attachment there is there are a lot more people who call Dubai home than it was 10 years ago. Yeah. >> And and so I'm sure a lot of the initiatives that were done have helped us get here, right? Golden Visa is one of them. You know, the fact that we call this our safe haven is one of the is one of them.

So I do really hope that they continue with these initiatives and then they make sure that the people who stayed are getting I don't want to say rewarded because it's home but just I don't know have that that have that faith in this country stay here. AB: >> Absolutely. And I don't think anyone wants handouts. Like you don't move to Dubai expecting a handout. It's the opposite, right? If you you work hard and that's the the magical thing about this place. And and again being part of Dubai Founders HQ, you see how many people are really working hard and hustling and building and creating value. And I think the the acceptance of startups has changed over time.

Like I've been doing it here now for you know 10 11 years. It's changed massively. There's a there's a much better ecosystem, >> but there's still a long way to go, right? Both from a a venture funding perspective, but also banking. Coming back to that, it took us as a startup 5 months to get a bank account, right? That has to change instantly, right? But this is the opportunity. I think this is where Dubai is really good is that it it it does typically seize these big opportunities. And I think this is now another one since co it's the next big opportunity for Dubai to now go again and improve again.

And I think that's the really great thing is that the government does listen and it's receptive to feedback as well, right? We we actively engage with different departments and and and with DFHQ and and what they've done from even just 6 months or seven months since it opened is is incredible. So um so yeah, let's go back to to Prop AI. Thank you for turning the tables. Um, actually to prop our last question on the market, if you were to invest today, yourself personally, where would you be watching? I'm not going to say where you're going to invest right now, but what area are you kind of looking at from a from an investor perspective, >> a buyer, not a seller?

>> That's that's a very good question because I believe that there are good opportunities that are coming. Mhm. >> Um but you need to be one very careful on those those opportunities and also be very aware of the data behind it. I personally would stay right now today because I have no clarity or certainty about how the market's going to develop or how about how many people are going to come in.

I would focus more on central areas like I believe areas like JVC was where it's doing very very well um in the past two three years where we have seen rental yields be very very high um people who are there who were paying 70k for a one-bedroom will move to closer areas once the the rents will drop there so I will keep my eyes open on very good deals in in areas that are closer to the center to the center. Uh we've seen a lot of like um downtown um Palumera Marina etc. but like Dubai Creek Harbor for example because those are still areas that are considered closer um closer to uh business centers and the sort. Uh but then again there are good deals that are coming.

So it's we're less so in a market where you know everywhere and everything is discounted but there are very selective good deals. So I would just keep my eyes open on a good deal regardless of where it is. >> And if you're an individual investor, obviously previously um the market was very much broker or agent driven, right? >> As an individual investor now, are you hopeful that more investors will default to platforms like propai first and get their advice from data as opposed to someone that has a vested interest in in selling a property? But anyway, the market is shifting. We had so we were monitoring the market.

It was always or it was a seller market for a very long time because it was the seller that was dictating everything. And then the majority of brokers here are seller brokers because these people actually get the get their stock and then are pushing the stock. So by nature they're seller broker and it was a seller market. um end of let's say end of last year we started seeing a neutral market where people were starting to be a little bit seller buyer balance there and now we're definitely in a buyer market. >> Yeah. >> Um with everything that is happening and while you're in a buyer market then what you need to do is understand the buyer's needs and then service the buyer.

>> Ideally you should be doing this throughout but now more so than ever. And we're very well positioned and then we're lucky to have positioned ourselves from the beginning to be on the buyer side. Yeah. And or actually to be on both sides because just by being transparent, you're basically servicing both. But at the But when you're in a seller market and then you have someone who's telling the seller, oh, you can buy it for higher no matter you can sell it for higher no matter what kind of data and proof you can give them. By human nature, that person is going to go with the one person who's telling him you can get more money for it. Yeah.

Um, so I think there's more and more need for for data. There's more and more need for understanding of what's happening in the market and definitely that's why we have built what we built and we're happy right now on the ideal index. We're even giving it all of this is is for free. Just we just wanted to make it accessible. We just want people to to feel more comfortable in whichever decision they make. >> So that's a nice segue.

Obviously, Prop AI is a is a data company or how would you def what was you know an intelligence platform um but ultimately I think the real estate market is the purest or finest example of how it's a market driven by people um still whether you agree with that or not and I think we can have that debate separately but um where do you think currently the the data falls short and I think maybe you gave that example of like the emotion of well the price sensit ity, right? Are there any other gaps still in in the in the real estate space particularly where data doesn't doesn't quite make its way to the forefront?

>> When you look at real estate investment and you very much know that it is probably the biggest investment that an individual is doing in his life. So whether we like it or not, there is always going to be an emotional factor to it. There's always going to be like, oh, I like this place versus no, I don't like this place. So for us off plan is always like we're we're building an an autonomous AI agent.

Um and it's very well it's not very easy but it's easier to do the set off plan where you don't have to go do visits where where data plays a bigger role because you know oh tell me about the developer the developer has developed that many units this is the success rate this is uh historically how price so those data you can when you don't have anything to go and see you show a little bit the area it's easier when you go into the ready market especially for own use whether we like it or not you can give people as much data as you want, >> they're going to go and check and see whether the bathroom tiles >> are not are of a color that they like or not.

>> Um, so for me and I and that might be a little bit controversial, but I think that >> or at least I think a lot of people have tried to replace the brokers. I don't think we will get to a point in time where there's not going to be any brokers needed.

I just um even if you give them as much data as possible even if you build a a fantastic AI agent yeah uh you will always need that human touch at the end of things but I do think that we're not going to need >> you know now there is >> or there used to be more registered 30,000 brokers in Dubai unregistered south that north of 50,000 um I don't think we need those I don't think uh you need brokers who do half a deal a month on average.

Yeah, >> I think you need a small number of brokers who have all the data, all the information themselves as well and are able to service the clients where 90% of the job is being done through data, through AI, through and then 10% is that human touch that will always be needed in the market. Uh so yeah, emotion still plays a and actually um it also depends on the trenches of the market and luxury. >> Yeah. uh data will always fall short. Yeah. Because you need a significant number of transactions, statistics, you know, all of these things for data to make sense and a lot of times it doesn't make sense in luxury. >> Yeah.

>> When you go ultra luxury, >> you cannot really find comps, enough comps for you to. >> So, so yeah, >> you know, obviously it's sad that so many brokers have already lost their job or or been married redundant or decided voluntarily to leave. It's not just brokers either, right? many industries, you know, my six-year-old son's football coach decided to leave, right? And >> or maybe he got made redundant. Who knows? But >> um you know, so many industries, FnB, hospitality, you know, being decimated right now.

But particularly again for from a just look at it from a real estate lens, the the winners out of this are those that were most prepared to embrace this data era, this intelligence era, this autonomous era. And none of them are, in my view, ready enough. Right? We've gone through the process of buying or renting properties throughout the team. Everyone has in the past 12 months.

And it it was still very much, you know, chase the broker on WhatsApp wait, you know, like there's so much waiting, so much chasing, so much loss of both time and value and energy >> that, you know, this reset, you know, this this new, you know, um I guess the the next version of Dubai, particularly in the real estate space, there's such an opportunity for either the existing brokers like the brokerages to to really embrace uh you know agentic workforces and um you know improving their intelligence layer because it's still a from whether you're a buyer or a tenant you still had to extract the data from the broker right it was a it was a very hard task yeah it needs to flip on its head and I think the brokers in my view that will win >> will actually be the ones that that demonstrate the highest degree of empathy right so those that have the emotional skills to just get to owe >> very little bit the the buyer or the the tenant >> and just supply them with data.

Hit that sweet spot because you also don't want too much, right? No one no human wants an overwhelming amount of data. >> We need to learn that the hard way. Correct. >> Because when we first started, we were like, oh, you know, we all like finance consulting background. We're like, okay, I'm going to put all the data I have in there.

And then I realized, wait, I'm overwhelming people. people don't not everyone can process or >> not everyone's a runny not everyone's a dentist right so uh you know we have to keep it simple for most people but again I think it's you know good data right amount of data with empathy that's going to for me that will be the next wave of really successful brokers versus what we've just seen over the last 2 three years where there's been many successful brokers but already you're going to see some of those leave or you know many have already left so >> well >> let's see >> so we're we're in a chaotic phase right now.

Like you see everyone like running around like headless chicken. They're like you see you receive a thousand different calls from different brokers. Right now I think I think we're going through this cycle where people so all of the brokerages have told people you go run after supply at the moment. So you get a thousand called do you want to sell? Do you want to sell? Do you want to sell? Um and then I still get these like oh there's a launch every now and then which I think is also a bit crazy that those are still happening. I I think it's a moment of reset. Yeah.

For for the real estate, for the prop tech, for everything that is happening because you you're also seeing people getting upset at or or brokers in specific getting upset at listing platforms uh property finder be youth at the beginning of it all.

I don't know but like there were a lot of very vocal brokers who have been who have built massive brokerages and have done so well in it being like we have seen no empathy from these platforms that have made a lot of money. uh there has been no reccalibration because the amount of money that they have been charging >> uh is still the same but we're getting so many like much fewer clicks or like I'm I'm paying a lot of exorbitant money for a listing that I'm not getting any leads from.

So all of this is is going to during like this chaotic moment I think um everyone and all the different players in the system are trying to understand how to survive, how to work better, what works with different people >> and and and the sort. So I think throughout this value chain of all of these things I think uh every different player in the market is trying to understand where they where they stand. Um absolutely and this comes at a chaotic moment that is also on top of a change in behavior. Yeah. >> Um you see change in behavior in um in users all the time.

No like we see a we we were seeing a shift from I don't know how often you still use Google search but for me I just default to Gemini. >> Look I I just don't do this scrolling thing anymore. I don't like this search thing anymore. Um and I think this was going to eventually come to real estate. So I think there's a lot of of things and initiatives and changes that are happening and we're definitely going through a super chaotic time where eventually things are going to fall into place but we don't know what is the new order. No, I think that's for that's for me what is really interesting that this this chaos has brought about the opportunity for people to self-disrupt, right?

And and I do believe certainly the brokerages and I I agree there will always be a big market for brokerages and brokers, but they they're in a a completely different environment now. >> So, no one's going to be fooled by a really good Instagram video anymore. You have to have the data. you have to have empathy both for the market you're in, the market the investors coming from, whether they're international or or or local.

Um, so yeah, I think it's a really good opportunity for that that positive disruption to just accelerate and particularly on the portal side of things again how you shift from scrolling, you know, you don't want Google results or you also don't want to scroll through endless property listings. you want to be paired with exactly what matches your requirements and you want it done instantly in the way you're now used to right which is served up in a very different >> kind of UI that than what the portals are and they were built on you know kind of web two type interfaces >> a legacy system that is there >> 100% so let's see let's see who builds the next uh challenger portal watch this space um so let's let's let's stay on that a moment we're we're obviously both in the propt tech space um And the whole purpose and the whole premise of Blockby particularly is to talk very openly, very transparently about the the extreme highs and the massive lows and the and the long dips in between of building a propt tech or a startup, right?

Not just specifically to propt tech, but that's obviously what we are. Um, what for you has been one of or have limited to one, but what what's the hard thing about building a a prop tech startup in Dubai that perhaps outsiders don't see? >> It's a very good question. I'm just trying to think whether it is I have a prop tech specific challenge or it's >> just a startup just startup. >> It's it's um it's a startup challenge. I think overall there are multiple challenges and I'm sure you you this is your second startup. No >> third. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Yeah, there you go. You >> learn you already learned your your lessons.

I'm learning them for the first time. >> They say third time's a charm, but let's see. Let's see. Yeah. >> Uh so yeah, I'm uh I think overall there are a lot of lessons that I had to learn. So for me there's there were personal challenges. I come from a very structured background.

I've learned to do things the a certain way my entire life and you know things are by the book etc. um going into a startup environment, getting things um done, taking risks was like a big learning I needed to do because I always was a perfectionist and like h you know there's an extra space or you know the page looks a little bit weird and then I I remember when we first started with the pitch document it took us three months to build up a pitch document this because oh we you know reiterated and changed it exactly and then and then now 3 years in now I have to do this to my team, they're like, "Oh, we need to" I'm like, "I don't care. Just put it out there. We're going to reiterate.

We're going to change it. We're going to make so many changes and it doesn't matter. You just put it out there. We'll hear what the market wants. We're a startup. Everyone's going to understand. We're going to change." And to get to that stage, it took me forever. And I think it's a it's a startup challenge building any startup whatsoever as opposed to it being a prop tech specific startup. Um I think what you said managing the highs and the lows uh were also was also quite interesting. Uh because at the beginning I'm like oh you know I feel discouraged once or not discouraged I feel tired or I feel overwhelmed. That was like the the major feeling. I feel overwhelmed once a week.

Um and then I spoke to one of my mentors and he's like come and tell me when you're feeling overwhelmed once a day. And then so realizing that you literally are like very happy after one phone call and then you feel extremely down after the other and managing to to put all of this in perspective and taking a step back and be like you know what we have done what we have accomplished is a lot even if there's a minor setback etc uh was was was interesting. Now the last thing and I think we have talked about it >> um is the fundraising.

Yeah. because I think this is a little bit more um I don't know different or more difficult here but everyone comes with this mindset at least from abroad that oh there's a lot of money in the Middle East and then it should be a lot easier to fund raise here especially that we see startups coming from the US to fund raise here and then they're like uh it must be very easy to to raise funds I did not and I did not find that to be to be very easy I think it's a completely different ecosystem. I think the ecosystem is small.

I think um >> they have different priorities but also different way of looking and like it feels that as a startup you need to be more adv like at preede we already had $700,000 in revenue. >> Wow. >> And and and then you go anywhere else in the world at preede you need to have a a pitch deck >> and and a story. >> Yeah. A three-day old pitch deck not three-month old. Yeah. Exactly. Like at seed we're 2 million in revenue, but you're still having to convince people that >> so like you feel like you're always need to be prove yourself a lot more here in this region than anywhere else in the world. And I don't know whether you share that experience as well.

>> Oh, absolutely. Like we said before, you know, it's a it's a very uh draining experience purely because like you said, the market's not big enough here. And you're absolutely right, there is a lot of money in Dubai, but not in very early stage venture capital. >> Um, and we've, you know, we've had Elliot on the podcast from Orisa. >> You know, my point to him was Orisa are amazing, but there needs to be like 10 or 20 of them, >> right, to make the the whole ecosystem flourish.

So yeah, there's still a long way to go and and it is very very hard and I think people underestimate how difficult it is to raise capital here in Dubai uh as a startup and like you say >> if you're a preede there's like pre- series A expectations >> there's at least two I guess stages of lag between expectation and reality >> and pos and it possibly works both ways in that that's just the market. It is very expensive here. It's very can be very slow. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I think all of those variables play play a part.

But yeah, I think that's from a building the business perspective, it obviously takes the most amount of time and energy and therefore you have depleted stores of time and energy to actually put into the business and it it can be a bit of a vicious circle. That said, um the angel network, not network, but the the the volume of angel investors here in Dubai, I think is is better than perhaps most places in the world with the exception of places like Silicon Valley and and New York. Um so yeah, we've had a lot of success in that space both at Tribe and in in previous ventures.

So I think you know you can just have a coffee with someone and and come away with a you know with a with an angel investor but as I've said before the the real important part there is that you you bring on the right investor whether it's institutional or angel and someone that you can work with and someone that can support the business beyond just deploying capital. >> Um so yeah it's definitely challenging. There's no there's no doubt about that. um for for you and I think you've already touched on it, but as as an individual, what did you underestimate outside of the perfectionism and getting perfect? >> Um what did you underestimate going into kind of starting Prop AI?

What was what was something that was very different in building a startup than than what you expected?

Um I think you guys have mentioned this on a previous podcast but I I I could not relate more to the fact that it is very lonely being an entrepreneur and then you you're used to always operating as a team you know everyone supports everyone but then when you're the founder everyone looks up to you and then you're supposed to you know carry your own you know emot emotional like well-being in everyone else's especially I I found this >> um well difficult or a little bit challenging at the beginning in order to find the right team members to bring on board because also you want people who um work hard believe in what you're doing but also are okay with this ambiguity or with the fact that nothing is set in stone and things changes a lot and I also don't think that the workforce here or people are yet or or people who are here to work because it's a very expensive place etc have that mindset that like not ever like I had people who like came in and out of of Prop AI who were not very comfortable with that fact and it's very difficult >> having someone that you need to also you know help regulate their wellbeing and their emotional wellbeing in order for them to be able to uh to be >> I don't know functioning at any point in time.

Uh but um I think building the right team was was definitely something that I thought was more challenging. I'm very very grateful and happy with the team that we have put together today. Uh but I can tell you I've I was very picky because that was one of the biggest um learnings that or or biggest advice that I think I got from someone was like be very picky on your team. Um so I for example to hire our adviserss I literally probably did over a hundred interviews >> people coming in and coming out in order to see someone that I also believe in in the culture people who can who who who can drive this the way we want them to drive this.

But the >> um yeah I I think finding the right people was a very big challenge. >> Yeah. uh and and getting those people uh on and getting those people on board um is also a big challenge because expectations in this country is crazy because what you can get elsewhere as in terms of >> salary stuff is not particularly easy. >> No, I I agree.

It's uh something that's still it will remain a challenge you know that kind of um level of responsibility right of your own well-being of of your teams of the performance and just carrying everything and everyone that that stays with you until >> I don't know about the very end >> but but this was at least the beginning of this war was particularly challenging >> because you had to carry you you needed to take care of yourself but you also are having people especially in the prop tech deck ecosystem like calling you being like uh the world is on fire. What are we going to do? Are we all going to be out of a job tomorrow?

Um you needed to decide whether you're going to go to the office or not go to the office. So like that was like extra taxing on top of everything that was coming. >> Of course. No, like I said, every every cycle, every kind of challenge, you know, will begin and end with you, right? Uh in terms of of responsibility, I think that that's also it's your opportunity to show and demonstrate what kind of leader you are. Um >> Oh, for sure. And and also like it's I don't know how people do it as solo founders. Like I'm lucky to also have a co-founder in Chris who takes care of of of the tech and then pushes on that front and does all of these things.

But like being solo founders must be >> very tough. Like I Yeah. No, like I I said >> I would like this is one of the things that is a takeaway. If I am to do another startup ever, I will never ever do it. Like I wouldn't even consider doing it solo. It's like impossible. >> That's good. I think that again that's a good insight, right? And and and perhaps you know a lot of the venture investors almost insist that you know you have a co at least one co-founder and and you know maybe there's good re maybe there's a method to their madness. >> Yeah, it could be. It could be. Have you done any of your >> No, no, no. It's all been Yeah. All been with co-founders.

Funnily enough, not all of those ventures have worked out because of the relationship with the co-founders. So there's two two sides to the story, but uh but yeah, when you have the right ones, it really works. But not just co-founders, I think team as well. >> Um so >> so yeah, um >> we obviously, you know, let's let's kind of skip to to tribe and propai and the partnership.

Obviously the report is one thing uh but actually the longerterm kind of partnership is more on what we build together how we integrate propai's intelligence layer into the tribe app helping our investors make datadriven you know well-informed decisions as opposed to us pushing a particular property um you know we believe in transparency at tribe we want all information to be there but I think importantly it's how we surface that information or help our c our customers or our investors discover that information is really important important.

So um so yeah how do you think the you know both from a tribe and prop perspective but also a market is is Dubai a a collaboration market or is it a com competition market? What's your view there? >> We we at Prop AI work from a fact that we want to collaborate with everyone. We don't see ourselves competing. We're listen the data is out there. The data should be out there and I think it's a responsibility. uh we take it um on ourselves as a responsibility to try to give data and and I think to as many people or to whomever actually is asking for it and wants it.

And I think you guys look at it from from the same uh from from the same perspective and I think I remember the first time we actually when we met and we were on the same uh >> uh panel um >> and you were asked a question about there are already people who are doing the tokenization.

I really liked your answer being like great like this is a proven model this thing works it's all about how do you deliver it how do you take it to the market and I always thought because as a com as a you know as a startup founder whenever someone comes that's doing something remotely close to what you're doing you're like con like on the spot anxious and and then it was a a fresh way of of looking into things um and we right now we were always at moments we're like I know this is our data but And do we are we protective or not protective of the data and we decided to go on the not protective side. We're like we're going to give it to people who want it.

Uh this is our strength and this is this is how the market should be anyway. Uh so we definitely look at it from a collaborative perspective and especially propai and tribe I don't see anything um I I don't see why we would ever compete basically. >> Oh no no no not us. I mean just in general like does does Dubai reward uh collaboration? Does the market reward collaboration or com like fierce competition more? >> I I think we're a bit too early to look into fierce competition. I don't think there is enough like >> I think the especially in real estate the market is massive. It's huge. >> I don't understand where there's going to be fierce competition.

I think the pie is very big. Everyone can actually have a very healthy piece of the pie and then still prosper and do very very well. Yeah. >> Um and I think you know at the end of the day how we built prop AI is we built it as an infrastructure and then what we would like to do is empower and then and and and empower uh a lot of the players in the market and that's how how we look at it and that's how I think it should be at least at this stage of the ecosystem. Um so this is pretty much how how we look at it. >> Um and we like tokenization. >> Good. Yeah. So do we. Uh and we like competition.

So actually, funnily enough, next week we have Joseph from Pripco coming on the podcast. Yeah. So we look forward to that one. Yeah, it'll be an interesting interesting chat. We've we've, you know, met a couple of times. We've sat next to each other at events. We've played paddle against the Pripco team and beat them. I have to mention that again. >> But I'll ask Joseph offline whether you actually did beat them or not. >> Well, you ask you you ask. You'll get to say Yeah, we Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next time we're taking a camera to prove it as well.

But uh but as I've always said like Pritra have done incredible things and to your point like the the real estate space is massive and if Pripra did everything they ever wanted to do they still wouldn't touch scratch the surface. If we did everything we wanted to do we wouldn't scratch the surface. So why why bother wasting time on creating this kind of false sense of competition. I do think it's an investor-driven >> thing to be honest but it's a healthy competition. No, you want to bring the best out to the market, >> but you don't want to be in a market where no one else is operating, right? Otherwise, there's not a market.

So, it's either a monopoly, which you're never going to crack, or there's not actually a market there in the first place. So, >> all fairness, we're starting to see that fail because now the duopoly of the marketplaces between Property Finder and >> quietly, we're on podcast. >> Yes.

>> No, like really there's a duopoly, you know, there's like property finder in I think now because it was only the two of them pricing are very is very similar, blah blah blah. what with what happened there's been extreme you know frustration with both of them and then like no one had actually managed to enter the market and do things differently and I think it's pretty refreshing to see multiple players doing trying to do the same thing in order to get to the right answer faster because you will need to keep iterating and changing and and pivoting etc to find what the market needs. >> Yeah.

No, no, I agree and like I said, I think the the fact that there's I don't view Pripco as competition per se. I view them as actually the leaders in the space at the moment that you know they they've laid an incredible foundation. We want to do it slightly differently. Smart crowd are doing something else. Stake are doing something else like those guys are all welcome by the way if they want to come on and chat. It's just Pryco that have been the ones who have embraced >> you know others the most openly which which is incredible and and all credit to them.

So um you touched on um you know challenging you know existing uh whether it's technology or platforms or bigger more more established companies. If you're a if you're a new founder in this space um what would your advice be to and specifically prop tech now what would your advice be to someone looking to enter this space at this point in time? I think this is the time to enter this space. Yeah, >> I think it was um it was very difficult before because everything was um working well or well enough I would I would put it that way. I think because real estate is a massive massive space uh it's usually very difficult to disrupt especially when just things are moving.

Um I think now for example we're seeing a lot more people wanting data because the market is shifting and in this chaotic time people are looking for other solutions in order to make themselves stand out in order to stay in order to prove why they're there etc. So I think it is um forget about fundraising and the sword in terms of bringing in a new solution in terms of of of finding a place now is the right time to actually enter and disrupt and do things differently because the market is open to this whereas it was not open to this or it was a lot more difficult when you know brokers were selling without doing anything.

No, >> buyers were buying without really looking much at data because uh you know the market is going up and then the narrative is there and things were >> were happening.

>> Yeah. uh where now things are a little bit crazy and we we do see it as a great challenge but also a great opportunity and I think if anyone is to enter the market with a new solution now is the time to do it >> and if they are so if if someone is listening and hopefully they are you know if that one listener that we get um it just so happens to be a new startup kind of uh founder or entrepreneur >> how how do they get going like again in Dubai what would be your >> maybe he should tell me no I'll answer the questions. Um what what would based on the path that you took? So we talked about RSA and Sandbox. We talked about DFHQ.

Um the guys were over at uh DTEK the other day. >> Yeah. >> As a as a prop tech like day one startup, what would be if you were to do it all over again? >> Mhm. >> What would be, you know, your first few steps, you know, to to creating that footprint in Dubai? >> I think it's one understanding the key players. Um it's also understanding um who are you replacing or competing with who who are you who are your key clients but also identifying um enablers in the market. So you said what I say um DLD for example um or some players or or players in DL now we're working with Dubai municipality for example.

So there are um movers and shakers that are actually very open uh to new startups also open to new ideas like I I don't know whether you guys have worked with Dr. Mahmud for example he was he was >> we need to get him on actually >> exactly yeah >> he's next you're next Dr. Uh so there are people in in in the market who actually understand the layout of the um of the land who can actually help you. Um and I I think having those programs in place ora and the sword DFHQ I think there's also a prop tech in the IFC. Are you guys in touch with these guys as well? >> Yeah.

So there there are multiple um initiatives that are there to support propt tech but I think the most important part is understanding who are your counterparts and who are your clients and starting from there. I think with the biggest learning I had is when you're building, understand who you're building for and work hand in hand with whoever you're building for in order to to crack it.

Like when we started building the data uh we identified potential users and then we had multiple um multiple sitins with them and went over it bit by bit in order to understand what is lacking what is missing and and it's a lot easier uh because the first thing we did was build in a bubble and then realize that when you put out there it's going to put it out there it's going to take you a very long time in order to actually touch on what the client really wants. So built together with whoever is your end user >> just get in front of your customers or future customers. Did your consulting background help you there like having that? >> I don't know whether it helped or it hurt.

No because in in all fairness um >> I came in with a toolkit >> um which was very analytical, very structured which was absolutely great for me like I'm like you give me any problem I'm able to structure it and break it down into multiple parts. Um it hurt in the fact that uh we're very much used to building uh slides and strategies um and not very used to implementing it. No. So like you get it there, you're like ah this looks great. Okay, now let's get it done and now you get scared because oh those things are like are real now. thing. Yeah.

>> Like you also come in with like, oh, like I'm an overachiever and then you put the first product out there and then you get more negative feedback and positive feedback and you're like >> start to question yourself here. >> You're like what am I like what do I need to do this? Uh but yeah, so it definitely helped on some aspects. It definitely um I don't think it's like the easiest trans transition from a consultant to an operator. >> No, it's not. No, it's possibly one of the hardest. So, you know, all credit to you for uh for doing it so well. Um, okay, we've got two more questions for you.

First one, >> when do I get to ask questions >> on your podcast? >> All right. Now, I know I now I need to start a podcast. >> Yeah.

Um so yeah in 12 months time if we sit down again we will sit down again and I'd already like to invite you on to talk about the Q2 report um in uh when would that be July time let's say um when we sit down in 12 months time what will the data have proven right or wrong about the market that signals were already showing us you know at the tail end of last year >> right or so so I think what we had seen in terms of signals and what our machine learning model had told us is there was >> a correction that was coming I think a lot of um others were saying a bubble but we did not believe it was a bubble I think it was a price correction of 10 to 15% in very specific areas and I really hope that this is what the market is going to show um of course that did not account for >> the lovely events that happened uh but um >> that's the ultimate anomaly isn't it the ultimate variable yeah Yeah, it's u Yes.

>> Gotcha. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know how else to what else to say about this thing, but it is it is >> it's difficult to account for that. Um >> and >> um I I think what Q2 will tell us is um whether this is going to stop there and it's going to be a correction of 10 to 12% 10 to 15%. um or whether um this is going to be a massive shift in change in in in Dubai and this is a reset which we don't believe is going to be a reset but I think this is what the data will have to prove to us. >> So Q2 is I guess the the pivotal data set >> 100%. I think it we really just need to >> Yes and no.

Sorry I I I'm going to I'm going to take this back because this is the this is the summer part. It will be a little bit of an indication, but it will not be the the final indication. I think Q Q3 towards the end of it is when things are been going to be very very clear. >> Okay. Well, we're booking you in for both a Q2 and a Q3 review. So, uh we'll get you in the get you locked in the diary. Uh and final question, obviously we're here on BlockbyBlock, um talking about building tribe in public. Um, so I'd like to ask you as a as a very close um ally, supporter, partner of of Tribe for your prediction on the road ahead for us.

Um, so could you give me both what you see the opportunities for Tribe and let's say the redhead, let's say the rest of 2026. Um, what are the opportunities and really importantly what are the obstacles? >> I'm going to start with the obstacles. I think um the obstacles is I think there's a lot of trust that needs to be reinstated into the market.

>> Y >> uh I think um a lot of it is is about telling people educating people about uh the opportunity that is here. uh and it is at the end of the day you are looking at it as an asset class as an investment asset class and it is um because it's real estate I think it's very easy for people to forget that as a as a as a >> as a concept but usually you go and tell people to buy in in stocks when the stock is low and then you believe that it's going to go up >> and I think that's a very strong narrative to be told now is that I you can get very good property to tokenize today at prices that if you had estimated the returns to be 10% before this started, you can estimate the return to be a lot higher.

But I think the challenge here is being able to communicate this properly and to be able to convince people and to be able to reinstate that trust in the market overall. And it and this is a responsibility that you carry that we carry that every single player in the market currently carries. But I think because you have a wider um audience than all of us uh that than people who operate with a single asset because when I'm trying to sell a million durham or two or four or five million durham it is a certain audience or number of people when you are tokenizing you have a much wider audience to talk to. So I think um >> that is the challenge that you need to to deal with.

Um in in terms of opportunity, I think it's a challenge in an opportunity. No. Uh because as an opportunity right now, you really have the chance to bring on board really really good um opportunities or very good assets. Yeah. Exactly. To tokenize and then to take out there and then you have the chance to start at a point where the market is low and hopefully it will pick up. >> Yeah. So hopefully when when I see you by the end of this year you will have whatever 40 uh what what is your road map? How many properties are you bringing on? >> Great question. I guess that that that is a question for our friends at the regulator. Um so VAR who are also going to bring on the podcast.

So yeah Paul you're you're up soon. Um yeah VAR and the DLD it's down to them right. Uh we want to move fast. We want to tokenize as many quality assets as we can. >> Uh I I think you're absolutely right. It's about building trust. It's about building a track record as well. Um, allowing data to help us secure the right assets at the right price. Um, so again, the partnership with with yourselves at Prop AI is is integral to our kind of asset selection and and asset vetting process.

Uh and then yeah just doing one doing another one and just you know learning from every everyone communicating really clearly with investors but again being super super transparent with the data that we have and helping them make really well-informed decisions to help build their confidence back because there's obviously been a a sharp loss of confidence in investing in this asset class. We've seen that from the volume of transactions that have already dropped and will probably drop again and maybe again and again.

Um, so it's building that confidence back up, but like you say, introducing this concept because it is still a new concept of you can now invest in real estate like you invest in stocks, like you you trade on the stock market and that's really our ultimate goal. So big opportunity state there >> 100%. And and every stock market is driven by data or powered by data but actually driven by both uh greed and fear. Yes. >> Right. and and we're now entering a very similar environment, very similar kind of structure with real estate by being able to tokenize it and trade it differently. So, so we're excited. We have no we're operating under no false pretenses.

It's going to be a challenge, but that challenge excites us. Um, Ranim, thank you very much for coming on. Uh, really appreciate it. You are such an important partner of Tribes. Um, but you yourself are such an important part of the propt tech startup space in Dubai. Um, so we appreciate you. We appreciate you coming on. We wish you all the very best. We're looking forward to seeing more uh Deal Index videos and we look forward to uh appearing on your podcast when you start it. >> I'm going to be very ready for that with a very long set of questions. Game >> on. Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Thank you.